I have heard the criticism of blogs... "all they do is post lists and call it writing"! It's funny, because that is exactly what I am doing today. In preparation for Core Comp, I have been writing army lists and deciding what direction my dirty, dirty Skaven will be going in for the 2-day 5-game GT. There are no restrictions and special characters ARE allowed, and Composition scoring is a minimal 5 points (1 for each game, yes or no). SO to put it mildly, I am not worried about bringing a soft list. Also, I should expect to face Teclis, maybe Kairos, Skulltaker, Masque, Grimgore, or other nasty special characters. Almost a 2400 point Ard Boyz with painting and Sportsmanship scoring. My kind of event!
Now, to get things started, I have written 4 Skaven lists I think would compete in that environment. I wanted to post them up and see what others thought or even just to start a platform of discussion for Core Comp. The first list is a solid "balanced" list, the second is double Grey Seer, the third has a Bell, and the fourth is double Hell Pit. Have a look:
Grey Seer (G), lvl 4 Plague and Ruin, earthing rod, talisman of preservation
Plague Priest, plague furnace, lvl 2 Plague, dispel scroll, ironcurse icon
Warlock-Engineer, lvl 1 Ruin, doomrocket, warp energy condenser
Chieftain, BSB, shield, storm banner
30 Storm Vermin, full command, banner of eternal flame
30 Clan Rats, full command, shields
30 Clan Rats, full command, shields
39 Skavenslaves, musician
39 Skavenslaves, musician
35 Plague Monks, full command, plague banner
6 Gutter Runners, poison, slings
Hell Pit Abomination
Warp Lightning Cannon
Warp Lightning Cannon
2400 - 216 models
Grey Seer (G), lvl 4 Plague and Ruin, earthing rod, talisman of preservation
Grey Seer, lvl 4 Plague and Ruin, warp energy condenser, dragonbane gem
Plague Priest, lvl 1 Plague, plague furnace, dispel scroll
Chieftain, BSB, storm banner
Warlock Engineer, doomrocket
30 Storm Vermin, full command, banner of eternal flame
40 Clan Rats, full command, shields
39 Skavenslaves, musician
39 Skavenslaves, musician
5 Giant Rats, 1 packmaster
5 Giant Rats, 1 packmaster
35 Plague Monks, full command, plague banner
6 Gutter Runners, poison, slings
Hell Pit Abomination
Warp Lightning Cannon
2399 - 208 models
Grey Seer (G), lvl 4 Plague and Ruin, screaming bell, earthing rod
Plague Priest, lvl 1 Plague, plague furnace, dispel scroll, ironcurse icon
Chieftain, BSB, storm banner
Warlock Engineer, doomrocket
50 Clan Rats, full command, shields
30 Storm Vermin, full command, banner of eternal flame
39 Skavenslaves, musician
39 Skavenslaves, musician
40 Plague Monks, full command, plague banner
5 Gutter Runners, poison, slings
Hell Pit Abomination
Warp Lightning Cannon
Warp Lightning Cannon
2400 - 210 models
Grey Seer (G), lvl 4 Plague and Ruin, earthing rod, talisman of preservation
Plague Priest, lvl 1 Plague, plague furnace, dispel scroll, ironcurse icon
Chieftain, BSB, storm banner
Warlock Engineer, doomrocket
30 Storm Vermin, full command, banner of eternal flame
30 Clan Rats, full command, shields
30 Clan Rats, full command, shields
39 Skavenslaves, musician
39 Skavenslaves, musician
5 Giant Rats, 1 packmaster
5 Giant Rats, 1 packmaster
5 Giant Rats, 1 packmaster
35 Plague Monks, full command, plague banner
5 Gutter Runners, poison, slings
Hell Pit Abomination
Hell Pit Abomination
2399 - 232 models
I like the second list, 2 Grey seers is sweet, i also like the cannon hell pit mix i think you need both to compete tho the storm vermin are a meh choice to me but it really depends how you use them and i really do love storm vermin models and fluff.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with all of these lists is that with the new VC changes, the meta has changed, and your list does not deal with the new meta yet.
ReplyDeleteThe Terrorgeist eats the furnace for breakfast. and you do not have enough magic weapons to deal with the cairn wraiths and banshees that are probably in every unit.
Any VC army that has looked at the new WD should have a field day with any of these lists.
The furnace is magical, as are the doomrocket and all magic including crack's call, scorch, plague, and cloud of corruption. I will cast the 13th spell at a 5-10 man ethereal unit all day. Same with the cannons... and the cannons will each the Terrorgeist with the help of Gutter Runners... if the Gutters don't do it completely by themselves.
ReplyDeleteThough I do see your point with the Aboms and adding spikes to them. When I do, it is specifically with VC in mind.
The Wraiths and Banshees are now also available as heroes that can be put in skellie and GG units, so you will have to clear the entire unit to take them out. The rare unit is easy for Skaven to deal with, agreed.
ReplyDeleteYou apparently have more luck with your cannons than I do. 1/2 of your actual hits are nearly worthless, representing a misfire, or needing a '6' to wound, and that is if you even hit with the bounce. Also, you will only kill the Terrorgeist 1/6 of the time. Not good odds in my book, especially if there are 2 on the table (which I am planning on running). If you do not kill it, then the opponent is just going to use all of their casting dice to heal it, so that is a no net gain for you.
My cannons are snipers. My Gutter Runners are even better. How long is the base? If you don't misfire you are guaranteed to hit it if you are straight on. Just start the shot 10" from the back of the 6-8" giant base it's on. If you roll a 10 first you still hit, if you roll two 2's you still hit.
ReplyDeleteStorm Banner and Ruin spells both keep it from flying at you as well.
Crack's Call kills a TG on a 2+
Plague hits Wraiths and Banshees that are hidden in units.
Skaven have better tools dealing with the new units than any other army.
Are you taking 2 to Core Comp? I'd love to see them painted up.
I personally don't believe the new vamp stuff has really changed the meta. I don't even think any of it is that terribly exciting or broken. Until i see it in a few tourney i really don't know 100% but i don't think you'll need to worry.
ReplyDeleteOK, I did the maths and you only do any wounds with the WLC about 30% of the time, so they are not exactly accurate in terms of wounding.
ReplyDeleteStorm banner does keep it from flying, but only 1 ruin spell does, and you only have 4 spells from ruin, probably only 3 (taking the 13th as one of them). You did not put your division of spells on any of your characters, and that is important to your strategy.
Plague will do A wound 1/2 of the time.
Crack's call has to have range, and it only kills on a 4+ (TG is I3).
I am not going to core comp, I would like to, but I am a slow painter and am just starting with the army. Hopefully it will all be ready for Adepticon next year.
@CH - I think you are wrong about changing the meta.
ReplyDeleteThe Terrorgeist can kill any large monster in the game on a slightly above average roll, and it has a 28" threat range, or a 36" range with the help of Vanhels Dance. On an average roll, you can kill ANY warmachine in the game. You had better hope your cannons get to fire first.
5 cairn wraiths in a unit of ghouls will keep a unit of anything without magic weapons occupied for the entire game, unless you flank the ghoul unit.
I do not think the Wraith trick is all that good, but putting 1 wraith in every unit is a nasty trick that will force people to bring more Hero level characters with magic weapons.
We shall see if it does change the meta in a bit. I just don't think you'll see enough of them to worry. You could be right tho we shall see.
ReplyDeleteI'm somewhat of a noob when it comes to Skaven, but I would have thought a Grey Seer is much more of an effective proposition sitting on the back of a bell, all things considered?
ReplyDelete@Fnurgn -- A Seer on the bell is nice, b/c it makes his unit unbreakable, but it also allows your opponent to shoot the grey seer. Your opponent can target the bell separate from the unit, and then hit the seer 1/3 of the time. True he has a 4+ ward save, but if you face any cannons or either of my usual opponents with 30+ DE XBows, then it will not take to long to off your general.
ReplyDeleteOnly 1/6 of the time. Seers and Priests are only hit on a 6. 1-5 is the Bell/Furnace.
ReplyDeleteYes putting them on the Bell makes them more durable, but also attracts multitudes more firepower towards them. It is a trade that is not always worth it.
Ooops, I thought it was 5 or 6. You play the Furnace more than I play either the bell or the furnace :)
ReplyDeleteI do think that you want to look more at the dual WLC lists. The new OK book probably mean you are going to want lots of ability to kill the big monsters.
I would also suggest dropping a couple of guys out of your big units so that you can run some 15 point engineers, just in case you face a chosen-star. 3 or 4 of them can make a WoC player cry.
Also a grey seer on a bell cannot jump out of his unit before it gets charged.
ReplyDeleteYes but he can reform/turn sideways (before getting charged) so the charging unit has to kill 50 rats before getting to the Bell. All the while continuing to cast spells with 360 degree LoS. Still, at the top level I think the Bell stays home at 2400 points.
ReplyDelete