Preparing for the GLWL Finals

The goal I set out with this season was to win the GLWL. Lofty goal, for sure, but I am one step closer after news this weekend. I had originally gone undefeated this season with a 5-0 record but lost a spot in the finals because Mike also went 5-0 in our division and scored more VP's to earn the spot in the finals. After a week of cancellations and spot filling I am in the GLWL 2012 "Elite 8" tournament for the League Championship and get a chance to complete my goal of winning the 2012 GLWL.

The tournament is an 8 man bracket within the 30 player tournament coming up next weekend. Our group of 8 plays and the winners move on, while the losers of each round are deposited back into the rest of the field. There will be a League Champion at the end of the day, as well as a Tournament Champion. Last year I didn't make it to the finals and ended up the Tournament Champion... this year I hope to win the League!

For those that don't follow regularly, the GLWL is a series of 5 games where you know your opponent and are required to publish online a 1500 point Fixed List. You then have another 1000 points to tailor for each opponent. In the finals tournament, we are required to make our lists using the previous fixed list, so we know what to partially expect going into the finals. I REALLY like this because I get to have even more fun preparing for the tournament with strategizing and theory-hammer.

Skaven Slave Tactics

Slaves are the best unit in the Skaven army book. There is a catchy first line to a blog post! I am writing this little one off because I have been visiting Under Empire and seeing Skaven played lately with little or no Skaven Slave units in the army! For a mere 2 points per model you can build the cornerstone unit(s) of your enemy crushing Skaven army.

So Skaven Slaves are 2 points per model. That's because they suck, right? Wrong! Well... not exactly wrong but it's all in how you use it. 2 points per model, because I never upgrade my Slaves. Shields offer longevity and survivability, but I don't care to add points to an expendable unit. Same reason I don't use spears or slings, as well as the fact that Slaves are not there to kill anything (and rarely will). They have some of the poorest stats in the Warhammer world other than an excellent Initiative 4 which will sometimes beat an opponent to the punch and take away a few attacks.

So how do I use my Slaves? As giant tarpit units. Combined with the amazing Strength-in-Numbers Skaven army rule, if your Slaves are within range of your LD7 General they turn into LD10 Slaves with at least 3 ranks. I run my Slaves generally in 2 units of 40 models, ranked 5 wide and 8 deep. This will keep me Steadfast for longer at LD10 and hopefully with a BSB reroll. BTW that unit of 40 models with a Musician (only) is 82 points. It is a STEAL.

The Slaves are at the front of my army, ready to be sacrificed as any good Skaven Slave would do. I run them towards my enemy and either slam into elite units hoping to hold them in place, or park in front hoping to GET charged and save a round of combat. Many of my opponents know what the plan is and charge them anyways with nowhere to go. Otherwise they waste valuable game time trying to maneuver around my large blocks and may end up getting charged themselves later (in the flank).

As you set this up it is important to protect their flanks to keep their Steadfast LD10 intact. They remain Steadfast if flank charged, but it is the +3LD from Strength-in-Numbers I am interested in retaining. This is why I often deploy my Slaves near the center of the board with my support around them. Often in the form of Storm Vermin, Clan Rats, and General / BSB. I am particularly a fan of getting the Slaves stuck in, and then next turn charging my Hell Pit Abomination into the fray. The Slaves remove enemy Steadfast and the normal problem a HPA faces. The same with a Plague Furnace.

Slaves hold up a unit of Grave Guard with a HPA looming in the flank.

Also, I often field my Skaven Slaves with a 15 point Warlock or even one of my item carrying Warlocks parked in the unit. This will keep them at LD8 with SiN at the very start of the game if they are out of range of the General (which they should never be, but oh well). It also acts as a delivery unit of your Doomrocket or Brass Orb, and then as a further redirector if you use that lone Warlock correctly... but that is another tactics article.

So remember my fellow Skaven Warlords, it is worth it to bring the large units of weaklings. Spent your Warpstone on as many Slaves as you can get!

Triple Hydra + Cauldron

The best games are the ones you lose, have fun, and learn a lot. Last night mi_whplayers of the Great Lakes Warhammer League was kind enough to proxy a horrendous Dark Elf list with 3 Hydras, Cauldron of Blood, a level 4 and a level 2 Dark mage, Lord on cold one, BSB on cold one with ASF banner, a giant cold one deathstar, 2 units of shades, 2 units of spearmen, and 2 units of crossbowmen. It would be a good practice before 'Ard Boyz coming up. I have to say, while intimidating as the list sounds, my list did have answers for everything he had... I just made enough mistakes by a small margin that I lost my chances to really capitalize.

First mistake, I was really looking forward to Crack's Calling a Hydra. I decided to drop Crack's Call when I rolled it with my General to give it to the Power Scroll wielding Grey Seer. I should have kept it on my General and do what I normally do by rolling 4 Plague Spells with the second Grey Seer. Not having Plague was the biggest mistake I made, denying myself the tool I needed to deal with the cold one deathstar. I really thought my deployment was excellent, and how much it helped me in the beginning (until I started screwing things up for myself) is showing experience of a lot of 8th Edition games in that regard.

My cannon was great until it blew up second shot. That's why we roll the dice though. Then my second Grey Seer miscast and instantly died. Damn, that one hurt, as I had power dice left, my power scroll left, and hadn't cast any of those nasty spells! Also first turn, my Hell Pit ran a whopping 16 inches (!) right into my own Gutter Runners, killing an entire unit. I had to laugh at that one, because they were exactly 16 inches away from it. After that I was a bit too timid with the Abominations, when I should have just ran them down the Dark Elves' throats.

I did use some good tactics to kill one Hydra in combat with Storm Vermin and an Assassin with flaming attacks, and sneaking my Brass Orb Warlock in between 2 Hydras to kill another. The Slave buses were great in their role of holding up the cold ones for most of the game, until the very end when they broke through and tore up the last of my army.

The only thing I regretted was not putting my Assassin in with a unit of Gutter Runners and Infiltrating to go after the Cauldron. The Assassin had The Other Trickster's Shard, which would have had the Cauldron rerolling ALL of its ward saves vs the poison wielding Assassin and Gutter Runners.


The game was a Major Loss, but a major learning experience and a great look at a truly 'Ard Boyz Dark Elf list. Now I know what to expect and how to counter things I didn't do well against, and what did work. I'm going to try to get a game in against Kairos Daemons next week, and I think I will be ready.

I made some more revisions to my list as well. No Assassin after this game. I gave him a try but he isn't for me in this format. I added more Plague Monks and the Furnace back as well. I really needed another strong hammer to really kill stuff. As for a ranged hammer, I dropped the Doomwheel for another Warp Lightning Cannon. The WLC is almost as good for killing monsters, but is much much MUCH better at killing any sort of infantry as well.

Questions about my list

I was answering questions about my 'Ard Boyz list for a fellow Skaven player planning a GT (no comp) list, so I figured I would post it up as a blog post. Here goes.

What exactly was your approach in your games?  Did you play a hold back strategy and use the 13th spell, Plague, Scorch, and the Warp Lighting Cannon to do damage, then finish off units with combo charges from the Abominations/Doomwheel/ranked units? 

I charge forward with the Hell Pits and Slaves, and hang back with most everything else to shoot and go heavy on magic. The Doomwheel is a mobile firing platform. I rarely charge it if possible. Otherwise the HPA's and magic do most of the work, supported by shooting.

What roll did the Storm Vermin play, and do you feel they are making up their extra points over standard clanrats? 

I do feel they make up their points. They also hold a magic banner. Usually it is the Storm Banner, but in the finals I am running them with the flaming attacks banner. I5 WS5 is damn good in the new edition.

How did you place your characters?  I guess it depends on what you are facing, but with limited units and the danger of facing Dwellers, I’m having trouble deciding how to divide up their placement on the lists I’ve made so far.  Did you spread out both the Grey Seers and the BsB if facing that?  I also noticed that your second list pulled in the magic resist/ward save combo.  Did you have assassination issues with Death Magic in your first round?

It depends on what army. I really only fear Dwellers as far as spreading my characters around. I definitely want my BSB in range of the HPA's and Slaves, but in my finals list my BSB actually has MR3 to protect both Grey Seers (unless I am facing Life magic). I didn't have issues with Death, but better to have and not need than need and not have. I run naked Warlocks in Slave units, and them run them out as redirectors or speedbumps.

Did you use your Gutter Runners for war machine hunting?  I have trouble getting excited about them in that roll, considering the earliest you can hope to charge is turn 3.  What else did you use them for in your games?

Yes, almost exclusively war machine hunters and monster hunters (they love to kill Eagles). I actually never really charge with them, always keep back and shoot with them and their poisoned slings. They are also great for scouting to block enemy vanguard moves, and killing the fast cavalry.

My rare selections will likely be 2 hellpits, 2 cannons, and 1 Catapult.  What did you find the Doomwheel useful for in your games? 

I do. It loves to kill monsters and monstrous infantry. I have playtested the PCC a few times and haven't liked it. I like the reliability of the Doomwheel (even if its movement is unreliable, it auto hits 3 times every turn).

I loved the Priest/Furnace in 7th, but have trouble getting excited about it in 8th.  In the games I’ve run in 8th, the one use 3+ ward save for the Priest has paid dividends since both he and the Furnace are hit by a single cannon ball.  Did you find you had enough other priority targets that kept the Furnace from going down, or did it often die in your second round games?

I had PLENTY of targets with 2 Hell Pits and a Doomwheel, but I am still dropping the Furnace for the finals. It's a whole lot of points. I am replacing it with 6 Rat Ogres who are faster, and I think more killy. Better on the opposite flank of the Doomwheel to assist the Hell Pits.

Did you take the 2 clanrat units specifically to fill out your standards, or did you find another use for them?  Slaves just seem like a better investment if you won’t have to face a match needing standards.  

Yes for banners, and for units to place my characters. I love using my Slaves to rush forward and tie up units for my HPA's to smash into. I need somewhere safe to store my Grey Seers.

My character setup is close to yours, I’ll just be using Engineers with magic resists to keep all 3 important characters at 3+ ward vs. magic.  One will have have MR1 with the general with 4+ base save giving 3+, and the other will have MR2 to add to the BsB and other Seer’s 5+ ward saves for a 3+ total as well.

In my 'Ard Boys finals list I am running my BSB with MR3, and he will be hiding in the second rank of one or both Grey Seer's unit.


I'll be posting up my final round 'Ard Boyz list in the next couple of weeks after I get some more time in play testing the changes I am dreaming up.

Top Five Skaven Units

I was checking out Warseer this morning, and in the new ETC Comp Restriction thread there was a mini debate sidetrack over the ranking of powerful Skaven units. While writing my list for the final round of 'Ard Boyz this is definitely something I have been thinking about with every version of the list I write. So, lets have a look at what I believe the top 5 most powerful units and/or items are in the Skaven army.

5. Warlock Engineer with a Doomrocket. For 45 points you get easily one of the best point return units in the game. This little guy is one-use-only, but he about always makes his points back and sometimes makes upwards of ten times his points back! The Doomrocket is a weapon that is random range, you have to guess between 4d6 and 10d6 for range then roll randomly. It must fly in a straight line but you do not have to have line of sight. If you roll 3 or more 1's you will misfire, but you're never misfiring because you should always be holding on to your Doomrocket until your enemy is within a minimum of 5d6 range (preferably the average of 4d6), or even better use it to shoot down the flank of the entire army after you're Skitterleaped this cheap kamikaze. The payload is a large blast at strength 5, which is enough to remove entire units of Elves and do serious damage to anything else.

4. Warp Lightning Cannon. I honestly think this the best artillery piece in the Skaven army, and one of the best in all of Warhammer. It is basically a stone thrower and cannon combined (it effects a line and then also a template at the end of the line), and is much more accurate than previously. It automatically denies armor saves, even if you roll strength 2 on the bounce for the hit strength. Combined with the Doomrocket, I have taken out an entire unit of 40 Halberdiers with good shots, because this thing does massive damage. I prefer it against infantry and to rely on a Doomwheel for killing monsters, but remember that templates hit all parts of a monster. Even if I roll a 2 for strength when I hit your Stegadon, a 6 will wound, you will get no armor save, and I will do d6 wounds. Harsh.

3. Gutter Runners. Scouts are much, much better in the new edition. Gutter Runners are some of the best, but you need to upgrade them. Scouting is excellent with poison weapons, because any 6 to hit on war machines will wound. Combine that with a minimum size unit, upgrade to slings, and the new skirmish rules that allow you to march and fire, and you are throwing 10 dice per unit of Gutter Runners to possibly wipe a war machine turn 1. 2 sixes means a dead bolt thrower, 3 sixes usually a dead cannon. Not only can they scout and be 12 inches away, but if you are worried about getting killed first turn, Gutter Runners can infiltrate instead and come in on turn 2 or later from your opponents board edge and wipe out all of his war machines then.

2. Hell Pit Abomination. Yes, I rated the Hell Pit number 2 and not number 1. The Hell Pit is "weaker" in 8th edition, it's true. But, he will still win entire games by himself with some good dice rolling, and maybe even some good tactics. I like to run mine on the flank and to double charge with Skaven Slaves. Random Movement rule of 3d6 means you can only "Hold" vs his charges, and he also pursues and overruns 3d6. He does impact hits, random attacks, and thunderstomp. He tears through heavy knights, can wound other monsters with multiple wounds, and if you charge him into an infantry unit and roll Avalanche of Flesh, you're opponent is pulling off models by the entire rank after 4d6 s6 hits (d6 impact hits, 2d6 hits, and then d6 thunderstomp hits). He still is very vulnerable to any sort of flaming attack that will deny hit regeneration, and not many people will ever take warp spikes with the changes to magic resistance.

1. Grey Seer with the 13th Spell. The Grey Seer is my number one choice. He starts the game with d3 Warpstone Tokens for free power dice. Anything that generates extra power dice in 8th edition is worth its weight in gold. He also has access to one of the most powerful spells in Warhammer as a signature spell! He can always have the Dreaded 13th Spell, which is amazing vs any small units with characters in them or elite armies where every model counts. You can cast with up to 6 dice at any spell, and if you throw 6 dice at the 13th spell, you have a 50% chance of getting it off, not counting the chance of rolling double 6's (1,2,3,4,5,6 = 21 + magic level 4 = 25). Combined with that power, you have plenty of items to heal wounds, more warpstoen tokens that don't take arcane item slots, and access to both powerful Skaven Lores of magic. Throw in some level 1 or 2 casters and your Grey Seer will have exactly the spells you want for him.


Honorable mention goes to Skaven Slaves. They are the rock of the Skaven army. Possible leadership 10 huge and steadfast units are what the rest of this list do what they are meant to do to win you the game. Better yet the huge unit of 40 Slaves with a musician is only 82 points. Expendable, long lasting tar-pits, and to make it better you can shoot and cast spells into enemies in combat with them! But Slaves by themselves are not powerful though, which is why they are an honorable mention. The fit in perfectly with the overall synergy of the Skaven army, and are a must-have. If the list was a "Top 6" they would be number 6!

Yes the Skaven are strong in the new edition. I believe they are top 3 along with Lizardmen and Dark Elves. Maybe you can use this list to tailor your Skaven to be the best rats on the block, or maybe you can read up on exactly what you should be killing first when you see that ratty horde across the table from you!

Writing an 'Ard list for Fantasy

I've been playing quite a few list variations lately, both to get ready for this years 2010 Warhammer Fantasy 'Ard Boyz and to also get used to the different units in the Skaven army in 8th Edition. There are still no scenarios released for the event (less than 2 weeks away), so any of the list speculation can drastically change based on the scenarios. A fortitude scenario could require the addition of more units with standards, where some severe magic restricted scenarios may change my list's outlook.

Here is a look at my current list and some of the ideas that went into it.

310 Grey Seer (G), lvl 4 plague and ruin, talisman of preservation, dispel scroll
305 Grey Seer, lvl 4 plague and ruin, foul pendant, power scroll

115 Warlock Engineer, lvl 1 ruin, doomrocket, warp-energy condenser
100 Warlock Engineer, lvl 1 ruin, forbidden rod
122 Chieftain, bsb, shield, armor of destiny

250 30 Storm Vermin, full command, lichebone pennant
235 30 Clan Rats, full command, shields, spears, poison wind mortar
155 30 Clan Rats, full command, shields
066 32 Slaves, musician
066 32 Slaves, musician
023 5 Giants Rats, 1 packmaster
023 5 Giants Rats, 1 packmaster

250 25 Plague Monks, full command, storm banner
090 5 Gutter Runners, slings, poisoned attacks
090 5 Gutter Runners, slings, poisoned attacks
090 5 Gutter Runners, slings, poisoned attacks

235 Hell Pit Abomination
235 Hell Pit Abomination
150 Doomwheel
090 Warp Lightning Cannon


21% Lord - 615
11% Hero - 337
26% Core - 772 (818)
17% Spec - 520
24% Rare - 710


First off, 2 Grey Seers. I believe level 4's are almost mandatory in 8th Edition. +4 to cast, +4 to dispel. So what is better than 1? 2 of course. Both Grey Seers will have the 13th Spell in case something unfortunate happens to one or the other. My "suicide" Seer will Power Scroll away and throw 6 dice at the 13th Spell and Plague with reckless abandon, while my General will reserve his Ruin spells for situational needs. There may be some times where I can even throw 2 Dreaded 13th Spell's in the same turn.

My Hero selection is mainly to support my Lord's spell casting. 2 more channel rolls, another 5+ channel roll, and a suicide Warlock that will add d6 power dice once per game. If I remember to use it, the Doomrocket is devastating. Every army in 8th Edition needs a BSB, and I prefer mine to be protected rather than to have an expensive banner.

My Core choice is pretty standard for my army. With the Storm Vermin, I went with the Lichebone Pennant to give the Grey Seer General another small protection in the magic phase. Hopefully a 3+ ward vs Death magic is enough (4+ ward plus MR 1). I only had enough points to fit in one poison wind mortar, but it is the best weapon team if I can only have one, imo. My Slaves are 30 strong for both Steadfast, but also maneuverability. I'd rather have 2 units of 30 than one unit of 60. The Giant Rat darts are little flank runners, Fanatic activation units, and extra deployment buffers.

Special choices are my utility units. I wouldn't prefer Plague Monks when trying to maximize every unit's potential, but they get the Storm Banner into my list. I think the Storm Banner will be essential vs Dragons, Terradons, Great Eagles, and Empire and Dwarf gunlines that I know will make some sort of appearance. The Gutter Runners are the other part of the defense against those units. 1 or 2 units max will Scout, and the rest (1 or probably 2) will deploy as Sneaky infiltrators. Maybe even all 3 infiltrating to try to guarantee a unit of poisoned slings firing on enemy war machines turn 2.

My Rare choices are the big guns of the army. The Warp Lightning Cannon is the best effectiveness per points cost unit I think, but I only have 1 of them. The Doomwheel is a straight up Monster killer, and I expect to see lots of them. And the Hell Pit Abomination, while I think slightly weaker in 8th, is still one of the best Monsters in the game. Maybe use one as a distraction up the middle, and the other as a support unit, they dish out a ton of damage. I thought about dropping one for more war machines, but for now I don't have the models.




We'll have to wait another 2 weeks or so to see what the scenarios have in store for my finalized list, but for now I am leaning towards this strategy for the first 8th Edition 'Ard Boyz.

Battle Recaps

I've played 13 games of 8th Edition Warhammer Fantasy Battles so far. Here is my impression of the armies I have faced, in order how strong I feel the armies are based on my experience with them.


Empire. I only played on game against the Empire. I was able to take his war machines mostly out of the game and hit his Wizard with the 13th Spell while he was in a small unit of Crossbowmen. I wasn't too impressed with the Archlector / Warpriest casting abilities either. I think I would have been given more fits if he had more war machines, but I've been taking more units of Gutter Runners as well. The large blocks of infantry were at a disadvantage to my blocks, because I always struck first with higher initiative and similar statlines. I tied up Greatswords with Slaves and hit his shooting units with the 13th Spell (hit them instead of big nasty units because 1 cast would destroy a single unit), Gutter Runners, and fast flanking units.

Dark Elves. One small game vs Dark Elves doesn't tell me much about them in the new edition. This was the first 8th Edition game I played and it was only 1000 points. I definitely will need Gutter Runners to disrupt the lines of repeating Crossbowmen. I am really hoping for new Nightrunner models in the 2nd wave as well that I think will help close the gap. Again, not much to say with so little of the full strength of the Dark Elves on the board, but they were more of a challenge than the Empire.

Warriors of Chaos. Elite Infantry, tooled up characters, high level powerful casters, and that damned War Shrine. Warriors of Chaos were tough, but the game I played against them, the 13th Spell decimated his Deathstar unit and ended the game quickly. I am more worried about Knights in my flanks, and should focus on feeding Slaves to Chaos Warriors to keep them away from my caster units. Not much really unfolded in this game to show the true strengths of the Chaos Warriors.

Daemons of Chaos. Daemons took a big hit with the new edition, but I still think they are a contender. In the game I played and reported on, the Bloodthirster (or any other Greater Daemon) is a big threat. I actually think it's better for Daemons to take bigger units of core Daemons, because I think they got better (except the poor Plague Bearers). A Ward save and Fear army-wide makes close combat better, and faster movement gets them across the table faster every game. I used the 13th Spell against the Daemons to go straight for his core blocks and not allowing them to get to me. I think this was key, because his big stuff really couldn't widdle down my large units of infantry.

Orcs and Goblins. One of my three losses so far in the new edition have come to the Greenskins. Lots of war machines because of the new army list percentage system. Lots of large infantry blocks which is the strength of the new edition. Lots of points to spend on characters large and small without worrying about slots. I think the Orcs and Gobbos are much better in the new edition. For me, it was about focusing on one unit at a time, protecting my flanks from chariots and boars, and slowing down the big hordes. I have won 2 out of three vs Orcs and the games I won were because I succeeded in my game plan, and because in both games I won the large and unwieldy units had trouble maneuvering around terrain. Both times against different opponents I was able to use impassable terrain to protect my units, and is also why I would rather run deep for Steadfast than wide for Horde formation.

High Elves. High Elves are pretty tough with always striking first and lots of great weapons in the army. In an 'Ard Boyz situation they may arguably have the best magic with Teclis. I have played the pointy ears 4 times. One loss at 1500 points, a draw at 1500 points, and a draw and a win at 3000 points both against Teclis. Teclis is ridiculous, but I survived him both games. Otherwise my focus against High Elves was to use my Gutter Runners to attack bolt throwers, eagles, and archers. Also I used by big nasty stuff on the flanks to take care of chariots and cavalry. I tried not to ever engage head on, because I would get chopped down by ASF great weapons. I tried to always have support when actually engaging. The 13th Spell is excellent vs the High Elves because they like the elite MSU's. I like turning those units into rats! 4d6 dice does take a huge chunk out of the big blocks, but for me it's about removing a whole unit (even if it is a much smaller unit) at a time. This causes the panic tests, and ensures victory points that are only awarded for entirely destroyed units.

Lizardmen. The toughest army I've faced in the new edition. I've won one and lost one. Both games were decided by magic, when in the first game I turned his Slaan into a Clan Rat with the 13th Spell, and the second game I vaporized my Grey Seer with a instant death miscast result. The game collapsed from there but I still learned a lot. Cannons vs Stegadons... VERY NICE. Template weapons hit all parts of a model, so that strength ten Warplightning Cannon shot I just rolled? Good-bye Stegadon. The Slaan magic though makes him king of the magic phase when special characters (Teclis and Karos) aren't on the board. Adding a die to every spell cast, making your caster's 6's not count within 24" (so I'll just have to take 2!), and transferring miscasts to your enemy are some powerful attributes. Combined with Life magic is probably were the Lizardmen are their strongest. For me, I tried to focus on one side of the board and dance on that 24" line with my Grey Seer to actually get my spells off. Beware of poison Skink attacks on your big stuff. Those piddly little Skink units are actually high threat priority if you don't want your monsters to end up as pin cushions.



I still need to face a lot of armies to get a good grasp on what they have got in the new edition. I am at least happy with the fact that the armies I have been playing are considered the "tough" or "upper tier" armies. I'm glad I was able to get a game in vs the Empire, but I want to find a gunline to test myself against. Speaking of gunlines, I think the army I want to face most now is Dwarves. I know I will be marching through a hail of missile fire to get to them, but I need to practice some anti-Dwarf tactics.I have also NEVER played against another Skaven army. I'm looking forward to a mirror match to really test out my unit choices versus another Warlord's army building style.

Skaven review

I'm just home from my 3000 point game vs Orcs and Goblins and should go to bed, but I just ate a cupcake so I am WIRED and ready to type. After playing between 10-15 games of 8th edition so far,  figured I would be better off to review what I have been using so far. I started off by playing moderate lists, but lately I have been playing all 3000 point games to try out some different builds for 'Ard Boyz. So without further ado, here are the ratings:

5/5 Grey Seer. Magic has become more powerful in 8th, imo. A level 4 is almost mandatory. Not only for the +4 to cast, but more so for the +4 to dispel. The Grey Seer is pretty expensive coming in at 240, but the 13th Spell always being available puts one of the strongest spells in the game in your arsenal every single game guaranteed. The Screaming Bell also got a boost this edition as well, even though I prefer to field him on foot. The bell chart is better suited for this edition (hello T8 Saurus, how about you rethink that Life magic next time!), the Leadership range of your Seer is 18", and the ward of 4+ gets bumped to 2+ vs spells.

4/5 Warlord. You can build a great combat Warlord, or a very durable one with the much improved magic items in the BRB. I prefer the Grey Seer, but when I am not running dual Seers at high points levels, a Warlord is a good non-Bell General when you are putting your Seer in the line of fire (due to miscasts). Put him on a War-litter for the great extra attacks. Pox Rats and Bonebreakers took a hit... no more Look Out Sir.

3/5 Vermin Lord. Vulnerable to cannons, and vulnerable to miscasts. It would be pretty horrible to lose your 500 point rat demon to a miscast roll of 2-4 then another 1-3. Terror is toned down, but he still is a combat monster. Initiative 10 means you will almost always strike first (stinking High Elves), and the D3 wounds are great.

4/5 Warlock Engineers. Lots of great uses for these guys with the new and old magic items. I often use them for scrolls (dispel especially, but sometimes the feedback scroll), but the forbidden rod is an interesting choice on a sacrificial warlock. The warp energy condenser is always a great choice for an extra channel roll that gives a power die on 5+.

3/5 Plague Priest. Their stock went down in my opinion. No armor, and no other saves unless you spend points for a ward... but you want to keep the good ward saves on your Lords. For me, PP's now are a Plague Furnace delivery system, but even their value decreased. Still very good in combat... but you will get hit back in 8th edition and die. The Plague Furnace is very expensive and has no save. It's still very good with smoke attacks and crew attacks, and the big wrecking ball all dealing out tons of damage. But again, everything gets to attack back and will grind you down.

3/5 Assassin. They are better in the new edition, but they are much too expensive. And that is before you give them gear.

5/5 Chieftain. Every Skaven army should have a BSB. Every single army. I like to tool mine up with defensive magic items to increase survivability. A magic resistance item is nice, then attach him to your Grey Seer with a 4+ ward, now your Seer has a 2+ vs the deadly Death Magic you know you will see.

5/5 Clan Rats. Infantry is king in 8th edition, and the Skaven made out pretty well. I think all of the Skaven choices are great in the Core section, but the ability to add weapon teams makes them top 2 in the Core section. I love my move and fire poison wind mortars.

4/5 Storm Vermin. Much improved over last edition. Striking at initiative 5, Strength 4, and the ability to take a magic banner have kept these guys in my list every game.

5/5 Slaves. 60 slaves with a musician. 122 points. Steadfast Leadership 10 with a bsb nearby. The ultimate Anvil to hold up a unit. I deployed mine in horde formation tonight, only because they wouldn't fit in the deployment zone! After I lost a round of combat, I reformed into 5-wide and TWELVE deep. They stayed there for the rest of the game.

4/5 Giant Rats. They don't count as core, but 5 rats and a packmaster for 23 points make excellent MSU's to protect/roadblock on flanks, speed ahead to draw out Fanatics, or race down the flanks after war machines. Plus all the extra MSU's increase your deployment count to get your big bad stuff where you want it across from your enemy.

5/5 Gutter Runners. These guys are my top special choice in 8th edition so far. I need to be better about using them as Sneaky Infiltrators rather than only as Scouts, but they are KEY to fighting the war machines that are so much more powerful in 8th edition.

3/5 Plague Monks. I love plague monks, but it hurts me to see them now. Low initiative, no armor save. They die sooo easily with everything not only striking back, but usually striking first against your monks.

2/5 Plague Censer Bearers. Even worse, these guys took the biggest hit in the army. I used to run 10-15, now I leave them in my case. I3, no armor. They get plague attacks at start, but they have to be fielded in much smaller units than Plague Monks, so die much much faster.

3/5 Jezzails. I just think Jezzails aren't for me. I dislike the lack of mobility, and I just don't want to spend enough points to field a unit large enough where their firepower will actually make a difference.

4/5 Rat Ogres. Monstrous Infantry got a big boost, and I think our fast Rat Ogres are excellent flanking units now. In units of 3 or 6 running down the flanks. Though they still suffer from the Packmaster shooting rules. A smart opponent can render them useless with some shooting, but at least it takes shooting away from your other units.

4/5 Hell Pit Abomination. Fairly expensive, hurt by the easy availability of flaming attacks, but he is still a powerhouse that can sometimes win you games. Thunderstomp added to impact hits, added to hit crazy attack chart? Scary.


4/5 Doomwheel. The Doomwheel FAQ'd movement did nerf it's movement, yes. But I play my Doomwheel as a mobile gun platform more so than a flanker. D6 wounds is a straight up monster killer, and he can still hold out most of the time against a charge, getting to shoot back next turn.

5/5 Warp Lightning Cannon. I think this is one of the best rares in the game right now. Amazing for 90 points. The Skaven rares are all great, but the WLC tops them all with the new no-guessing for war machines.





There are some units missing from my review, but these are all of the things I regularly use, or have experience with. Things left out are unfortunately units I just don't field.

Also, happy birthday to me. I turn 28 in about 19 minutes. I am of course asking for more Skaven!

The Dreaded 13th Spell

One thing I have learned about 8th edition is not that huge blocks of infantry rule the game, or new monsters and thunderstomps are deadly... it is that most armies have 1 truly devastating spell in the magic phase that they hope to get off and wipe out entire units. Pit of Shades, Purple Sun, all Gateway are similar for other armies, and for Skaven it is The Dreaded 13th Spell.

 25+ cast
May only effect Infantry
4d6 models are removed as casualties, no saves.
If you remove equal or more models than are in the unit, replace with a Clan Rat unit of equal size with any equipment.

The 13th Spell has been truly devastating in 8th Edition for me. The ability to throw 6 dice has gotten me a cast once per game on average. Recently I took out a unit of Saurus Temple Guard and their Slann Mage Priest (who is listed as Infantry in the BRB, by the way). Last night I warped 19 Chaos Warriors, leaving their banner bearer, Chaos Lord, and Sorcerer Lord in their own 3-man unit.

Just throwing 6 dice may not be enough. Warp Stone Tokens allow you to go after your maximum casting dice, but also cause wounds on a 1. I have cast Big 13 on a roll of 25 without IF, but it's been scrolled. There is nothing as heart breaking as losing a 13 Spell cast to a scroll. Well I guess losing your General to the spell is much worse, but you know what I mean.

What I like in the new BRB is the Power Scroll. Declare before casting that you are using the Power Scroll, and ANY roll of doubles causes you to cast with Irresistable Force!

Just remember though, the new miscast chart is nasty but it's not DEADLY (for your Grey Seer) unless you roll a 2-4 on 2d6 and then a 1-3 on 1d6. Wounds are what Skalm was made for, but a strength 10 hit to every model in base with your Screaming Bell (15 models) HURTS. Also watch out for Feedback Scrolls. The spell goes off, but those 6 dice you just used for 13 are all rerolled, and any 5+ will cause you a wound with no armor saves. But remember this can only be used if not cast with IF, because the Feedback Scroll is used instead of attempting to dispel... you cannot dispel a cast of IF!